Prot’s Quickie Batrep: Chaos Knights and Thousand Sons vs. Orks
I hope this post finds everyone doing well and destroying a slave world to the corpse god nearest you. (With Chaos Knights of course)
In this episode I hope to do a quick rundown of my most recent test game with the new Chaos Knights. Please keep in mind as of this game the Codex was NOT available and I went with what I was sent/shown from the codex beforehand.
This will be a quick batrep and I apologize for showing unpainted models but I’m really not sure which Chaos Legion will be largely tied to my Chaos Knight additions.
Let’s jump in: This game I pair up the Chaos Knights with a Thousand Sons Battalion which amounted to the following:
Iconoclast House Chaos Knights/Thousand Sons:
Tyrant (I realize this will not be a big meta choice) – 4+ Invuln. Relic
Tyrant (I realize this will not be a big meta choice) – 4+ Invuln. Relic
Wardogs x2 (1 with Autocannons, 1 with Melta/chainsword)
Ahriman + DP w/Wings
3 Chaos Spawn
3 Tzaangor Enlightened w/bows
Dual Battalion consisting of 2 Battlewagons with dethrollas, a Truk with Tankbustas. (I believe each battlewagon had 25 dudes. 25 more dudes were in the “Teleyporta” (silliest name I ever heard for an Ork technology!)
15(?) Lootas and tons of Grots in the background.
One relic Shock attack gun and a regular shock attack gun (these would be my biggest concern typically with Knights)
An HQ on a trike, and a Psyker. To be honest I’m sure I’m missing something but there’s so much junk on the table it just comes off as a mass of green stuff you feel like you can’t kill in time.
We would play Maelstrom using the updated rules and this is the one where you can really screw your opponent. You each start with 4 cards but every time you draw an Objective you draw 2 instead and your opponent picks which one you keep and which one you put on the bottom of your deck.
The Deployment was Vanguard Strike (Diagonal) and Orks would go first. (I thought about not seizing but realized it would be nice to get some push out from my chaff as he would be rushing me big time.
My deployment was very deep and I put both Wardogs/Armigers in behind the big Tyrant. The big concern for me was “Da Jump” which is ork speak for “legalized cheating”. Seriously though he had some deeply entrenched Lootas I was terrified of and the Tankbustas can shoot out of the Trukk.
It’s important at this point to note that I took TOO MANY (IE:illegal) pre game Strats. I ended up starting with only 4 CP because I took so much crap and an extra relic (Helm of the third Eye on my DP). One thing I like against Shock attack guns is the VOW OF DOMINANCE (2CP) which never even came into effect the whole game. And VOW OF THE BEASTSLAYER (1CP) which was -amazing- in this game. (I also took VOW OF CARNAGE (1CP) which also never came into effect. So those are Iconoclast exclusives and I think those PLUS the Iron Warrior built Relic: The Veil of Medrengard.
The Dominance pregame would have been good against Shock attach guns but my opponent never rolled over an 8 all game for their strength. That means he would never wound me better than a 4+ anyway. (The Vow defends your Knight against taking a wound on a roll of 1-3). The Vow that shined was the Beastslayer and it came in handy in this game allowing the Tyrant to re roll all To Wound rolls of ‘1’ against models of 8 wounds or more.
Orks Turn 1:
The Orks start the game with tough Objectives to complete and decide to (shockingly) zoom ahead and advance pretty much all the tank/truks. That said, the Orks calculate I’ve deployed too deep in my zone, thus preventing a Turn 1 charge. So they put their thinkin’ caps on and decide to only use a part of their movement and stay largely tucked behind two pieces of factory terrain in the middle of the table. One red battlewagon (top left) has managed to grab an objective.
Shooting starts, and I cringe. It always sucks losing a Knight in T1 but with Orks it’s certainly plausible. The shooting started out poorly. The Lootas were out of Range, but the rest of the shooty Orks were mostly in range. The Shock Attack Guns both rolled as bad as I’ve ever seen. No joke, I think they had Strength 3, and strength 6 respectively. Number of shots was very low too. But then the Tank Bustas lit up and I got really lucky. His hits were mediocre but his ‘to wound’ rolls were way below average.
The Tyrant makes some 4++ saves and I know that the Knight got off very lucky taking only 6 wounds. (I think CP re-rolled one of the higher damaging wounds too.) Aside from the Knight, a lot of Tzaangors got plinked off, but I still had about 10 or so left and only lost 1 to morale. Not a bad turn, but to be completely honest the Orks had some terrible first turn shooting luck.
Thousand Sons/Knights Turn 1:
Did Ahriman foresee this? Hell no. But to take advantage of it the Knight would have to hit hard with so many Orks mounted up in wagons and DethRolla’s just inches away. The Knight was hungry and it was time to feed on rusty cars, and bow-legged Orks.
After the movement phase, Ahriman would get off Death Hex on the main Tank Busta Wagon. (I forgot to mention there was a 5++ forcefield in the mix somewhere.)
The rest of the Psychic phase to be quite honest was terrible. I tried to get off a ‘psychic bomb’ from my Daemon Prince in the form of “Infernal Gateway”. It would have been MASSIVE because of the size of the vehicle footprint it was targeting but with a roll of a 1 and a 2, there was just no way. In fact I failed so many tests this turn it was pretty much on par with the Orks shooting phase. That worried me slightly since I rely so much on the mortal wounds. Even Warp Time failed on the Daemon Prince leaving me stuck in deep in my zone still.
At this point I take a bit of a risk because moving the Tyrant further up towards his vehicles meant putting him in range of his Lootas. But … who cares, a Knight’s gotta feed.
The tyrant moves just within 12″ of the Tankbusta Truk and pierces it with the Harpoon for 10 wounds, and finishes it off with some melta shots. Only 1-2 Orks die in the explosion. The Tyrant is happy with himself and proceeds to aim his Conflagration Cannon and burn a Dakkjet out of the sky. As good as this sounds on paper, it’s really not that much killing. The rest of my army plinks away uselessly as my rolling is equally as horrid as my opponent’s. This would set up for the big second turn rush the Orks were hoping for.
Orks Turn 2:
The rush is on and the Orks have decided it was time to close the gap and charge in.
The Orks out flank the Thousand Sons. The push is on and I feel quite squeezed in. There’s just no way to reliably get out of the crunch and the Knight will be heavily targeted and explosions are a concern with the Tyrant Class especially!
This time the Ork shooting is… marginally better. The Knight is hammered from Tank bustas and I lose all the Tzaangors. I’ve essentially lost my screen and one of the Shock Attack Guns does nothing again, but the other one gets some damage, on top of the Lootas which only fire once each, the Tyrant is now down to 7 wounds.
Here’s an interesting side note though. With only 7 wounds left (which is actually a lot of wounds when you think about it) the Tyrant becomes nearly useless. I think it can only move 4″ has BS5 and WS6. There’s really very little it can do because the Chaos Knights do not have access to a Strategem that allows the Knight to act in it’s top level of wounds for the turn. (That’s really bizarre and makes the Dominus/Tyrant class far less attractive.)
Regardless with shooting over the Deathrolla’s roll in and completely paste one and half Spawn. (I don’t think they cared to be honest). But the Amiger Warglaive (Wardog) took 10 wounds! That was brutal. It only got to fire once, but thanks to the Iconoclast rule, I would get one bonus attack!
With nearly all my chaff gone, and the two main Knights in trouble, I had to have a lucky push back or get drowned in green bodies.
Thousand Sons/Knights Turn 2:
Right off the hop the Tyrant used his 4″ to position close enough to one Wagon to assault it and close enough to another Wagon to spear it just in case I got lucky.
I left the Wardog in Close Combat with the Wagon because I was just so certain with Thousand Sons I could use the Psychic phase to get rid of the last 5 wounds. I was wrong. The Daemon Prince did terrible. One of the Ahriman’s casts had to take the Invuln off of the Tank Bustas so he cast Death Hex on them, but everything else failed… including Warptime (again!) to get the Daemon prince over where I needed him.
Backing up a bit, this is where my 5 Scarab Occult came in. A little higher up the field to start taking down some chaff since I was pinned so deep in my own zone.
The Tyrant spears one vehicle, but can’t kill it. The authitting Conflagration Cannon takes down another flyer (just barely!) and then the assaults begin. On one side the Daemon Prince, Spawn (with a Strategem) and Cultists take down the other Wagon while the Tyrant and Warglaive pound the other one down.
Somehow I’m still living on minimal wounds with the 2 Knights, yet I’m still pressured and stuck deep in my zone. The bodies just keep coming.
Finally the Scarabs do some minor clean up and the Daemon Prince helps destroy the Wagon.
Orks Turn 3:
At this point I’m running away with points and the game is more about killin’ each other now and just seeing what works and what doesn’t.
That said, the Orks still have a lot of shooting on the table! The Lootas don’t have great line of sight but there are valid targets. I’m afraid to get my Scarab Termies in line of sight of Lootas because they’ll just melt the Termies.
The Orks still have two Shock Attack Guns and some bodies and the Trike HQ. Sure enough the Tyrant goes down to massed firepower, and the Wardog goes down with his last 2 wounds. Thankfully nothing explodes. The surviving Orks from the Wagons make short work of my Rubric squad and easily punch through them. It would now be a war of attrition.
Thousand Sons/Knights Turn 3:
So you’d think with all this failure in the Psychic phase I could turn it around, but not really. Such is the warp I imagine.
My Armiger Helverin is largely unmentioned in this batrep because it did very little, and I’m also to blame since I forgot to shoot it at least once!
Ahriman does a 1 wound smite but would manage to kill of the Trike HQ in close combat while the Cultists and Spawn finished off the other squad of boyz.
Now with very little on the table I could finally push outward but would still have the massive risk of Lootas and Shock Attack guns to face if I wasn’t careful.
The Scarabs basically take down a quad of Grots a turn with no chance of threatening the Loota castle in the back. It’s best to stay tucked away and just score objectives.
And with so little left on the table we called it. The points were well in Chaos’ favour but the destruction in the middle of the table told a different story of a fairly close game. Sure I had my main Thousand Sons HQ, but I had no chaff left, and no range aside from one Armiger Helverin.
He was down to Lootas and Shock Guns with no real way of getting objectives. So we call this a Chaos victory and some good lessons learned for myself with my Tyrant experiment.
Post Game Thoughts:
- Although I don’t think you’re going to see people running Tyrants a lot, I did enjoy it. I know the default (at least to start) is going to be a Dual Avenger Gatling Cannon Knight, but I like to experiment. It was fun, but I’d really like to get the pure close combat (Gallant/Despoiler) in there. Also with no means of improving the performance temporariliy (aside from the relic unlike loyalist Knights) a 7 wound Tyrant is nearly unusable.
- Thousand Sons made for a decent combo. I miss my Thousand Sons but have had little reason to continue redoing the army (I sold my first one about 6 months ago). My intent was to get Death Hex working with Ahriman making the Knights even more potent against hard targets and it worked even in this game.
- Thousand Sons in general get a good advantage from teaming up with Knights in any capacity. Long range shooting, and shooting period can be a problem. I was sick of bringing in all the Forgeworld stuff just to have a little variety. Chaos Knights make Thousand Sons a little more interesting.
- Black Legion is what I’ve been working on but I find I need more points spent on Black Legion to get the army working with Chaos Knights. Although Red Corsairs have advantages, I’m not sure it’s worth using that many marines which are still in a terrible place.
- The Wardogs are fun, and they have a little more flexibility. I could definitely see using them more with Thousand Sons in the future. The Warglaive variant is really good for intercepting units to protect your Psychic lineup.
I hope you enjoyed the batrep as much as I enjoyed playing the game. I will continue with the Tyrant for a while as I’ve started a model for it and it’s a ‘fun’ unit even if it is a bit pricey and short range! Here’s what I’m working on:
And what’s this…. a Despoiler in the works….
I have to get at least one CC walker in the list.
Thanks for checking in on the blog. -Prot.